#I feel like I want to go back to s1 with Dustin saying Lucas was Mikes best friend and how he was jealous in s1

[love-byers]

i fear no byler quote will make me more unhinged than:

"You guys think he's okay?"

"He's always weird when he has to go in."

"I don't know. He's quiet today."

"He's always quiet."

"..."

LIKE HOLY FUCK

the amount of depth this scene adds to mike and will's relationship despite only being a few seconds long is INSANE. my film student oomf @reo-bylerwagon has told me that it's a real strategy to find the exact right wording that adds this depth. there's only so many lines and so many scenes, so every last bit has to count towards something.

there is so much here

1. mike being closest to the camera while the others hang back

2. mike's expression being more concerned than the others

3. "you guys think he's okay?"

dustin is worried about his friend, but he's unsure. he seeks out lucas and mike's opinions.

4. "he's always weird when he has to go in."

lucas has noticed that will is noticeably different on days he has to go to the lab. but he reassures dustin. this is expected. will is always a bit off on days he knows he has to go in, because he hates it.

5. "i don't know. he's quiet today."

mike isn't so sure. will isn't acting the way he always does on the lab days. there's something else. he's noticeably quieter. mike suspects that this isn't just because of the lab, that maybe will isn't okay.

6. "he's always quiet."

lucas knew will was acting weird, but he didnt notice any difference in how quiet he was being. will is always quiet. that's just who he is. that's not a factor in his weird behavior, at least to lucas.

will is always quiet. every day. he is a quiet person.

there are several layers here that make it difficult to notice these shifts in will's behavior. he is a naturally quiet person. there is a known explanation for why he acts weird on certain days. and this is one of those days. no one else thought will was outside of his norm.

but still, somehow, mike knew that wasn't it. he noticed that will was acting different even on the day where he ALWAYS acts different. he noticed that will was being slightly quieter than usual even though he is ALWAYS quiet every single day. he knew this was new behavior. he knew there was something else going on.

but he doesn't voice this, he just watches will silently from behind the fence, clearly deep in thought. he's worried.

i'm sorry but why shove it down our throats that mike is more attentive to will than his other friends and clearly cares for him more and wants to protect him just for it to all mean absolutely nothing in the end? he is even more attentive to will than he is to el.

like how are they going to explain mike's behavior? cause like they still have to do that

"will is just his best friend" there's a whole scene in s1 where mike says they're ALL his best friends

"he's known will the longest" he also says he doesn't treat his friends any differently because of how long he's known them

literally what else is there?? is will just his extra special platonic bro soulmate???

ok so will was misled by mike's attentive caring and supportive behavior that was exclusive to him and developed romantic feelings. and mike is like that...just cause. this whole plot was just a tool to help will realize his sexuality and he'll get over mike and mlvn will be endgame.

a few problems with that...

WILL HAS BEEN BULLIED AND ABUSED AND CALLED GAY/GAY SLURS HIS WHOLE LIFE. unfortunately, and fellow queer people will understand, it's easier to come to terms with what you are when it's been spouted in your face your whole life. if wills love for mike was just to help the audience understand that he's gay, what was the point of all the homophobic abuse and hate crimes and all that? just cause? alright. noah has said will realized his feelings for mike "later on" but quickly cut himself off. will realized his FEELINGS, not his sexuality. will wasn't crying in the van because he doesn't want to be gay, or because he's coming to terms with the fact that he's gay. he was crying because he is deeply in love with someone who he thinks will never love him back. this isn't about self acceptance. will has accepted himself. he's accepted what he is. he's accepted his feelings for mike. that's not the problem. that's not why he's hurting. he's hurting because she's he's heartbroken.

like i'm sorry but it's ridiculous to pretend like you don't see how anything besides byler endgame makes 0 sense. bc it really doesn't and you don't even have to be a writer to see it

[pepstarvanmoon]

Someone please get El out of there

Is it not obvious what this is? Do you really not know what you should be doing? SAY THE DAMN WORDS.

Why do you think she’s doubting you? Can you really not tell?

Mike, sweetheart, your relationship balancing skills are a terror to your friends, family, and romantic partners.

This is why people found Midleven cuter in S1/2, because the day you made it official marked the beginning of El’s doubts in your feelings for her.

You cannot seem to grasp that El is your friend AND your girlfriend, and somehow treating El like a girlfriend equates to treating her like shit.

You cannot make this up. El needs WORDS because Mike’s ACTIONS actively make her feel unloved. She does not feel it, so she wants some kind of verbal/written affirmation because of how emotionally distant Mike feels.

(someone talented please edit Elmike to Hamilton’s Burn or send an existing edit my way, thank you ♡)

His actions do not align to her expectations of love, not that it’s a good idea to let TV define romance for you, but you’re allowed to want/expect certain things in a relationship, and El isn’t getting that.

And let’s not act like Mike isn’t good at making people feel loved/cared for. Will is in love with him for a reason. El loves him for a reason.

(It was difficult to pick scenes for this because I’ve read arguments for how these aren’t really romantic at all, but from 12/13-year old, “fresh out the lab” Eleven, it’s as romantic as romance gets imo)

El has been trying to convince herself that their relationship is better than it is, because once she admits to herself that it’s not working, what does she do?

Her day-to-day life isn’t that great. Sure, she has her new family in the Byers, but her dad recently passed away and she’s being bullied at school. She has no friends outside of Will, and while I’m sure their relationship is great (wasn’t explored that much tbh), he can’t keep her from feeling isolated, and his own trauma with bullying keeps him from standing up for her.

One good, unchanging thing she has is her relationship with Mike. He’s the one who took her in and housed her, he taught her what it meant to be a friend, and… I’m having a bit of trouble here lol. I was going to say:

Never used her for her powers (not true lol)

When she was burnt out, he never expected more from her (not true LOL)

Never treated her differently for her powers (for this one, he found her awesome in an awestruck way rather than a Brenner “I’m gonna exploit this” way, but when he thought she lied about Will/hurt Lucas he was on her ass lmao)

My girl has those ‘first love’ blinders on. I keep having to ask myself what she sees in him besides ‘first person to accept me + we kissed’ like besides the latter, Dustin was right there. A lot of the parts of Mike I enjoy don’t reveal themselves around El outside S1 (barely S2). He’s shown as caring and protective, but he’s like that for all of his friends?? Especially when they’re in danger so idk what’s different. I’d have to peruse the milkvan tag to get a hint, but I’ll probably get a better idea watching Sleeping Beauty.

I’m a firm believer that Mike kept it ambiguous because he didn’t want to admit what the real problem was to Will.

“I couldn’t tell El that I love her.” - simple as that. Must be something about Will that has him holding his tongue because after S3 I doubt he’d have that much trouble telling Lucas.

Are you embarrassed? If you thought it wasn’t that serious you wouldn’t have told Will that it was something you “can’t come back from”. Is love serious to you, Mike? Because you can’t love El in the way she wants, do you think you’re incapable of it? Do you feel wrong? Do you not want Will to know?

Hit a little too close to home, huh.

(and let’s not get into the "team, friends, best friends" scene they had together like what was the point in having them make contact a SECOND time.

They already established a connection between them. Mike could’ve asked to be a team after the "guess it's gonna be up to us again," and Will could’ve taken the painting offscreen (the focus shot of Will grabbing the painting gets me so bad like WHY), but instead they wanted them to blush and giggle over each other AGAIN before they got to the van.

Make it make non-Byler sense I'm begging.)

You’d think that’d be good enough, but Mike still feels conflicted and has to make it Will’s problem (actually, Will kinda made it his problem. The way they shot the triple take makes it seem like Will dragged Mike away for another talk because of how spacey he was being. Who knows.)

Tf do you mean you didn’t know what to say? “Maybe if I said that thing” so you DO know? It’s painfully cut and dry if you take emotions out of it. El wants Mike to say that he loves her, so to fix this, to come back from that fight, Mike has to say he loves her.

Why is it such an internal battle for him? If I were to take it at face value, I’d chalk it up to what he said in the van scene.

So your solution is to push your relationship to a point that has El crying and throwing all the loveless letters you sent to the floor? To tell her that she’s incredible and a superhero and that she should know how you feel about her because, despite the tears streaming down her face and her DIRECTLY asking you if you still love her, she must know how amazing she is too?

NEWSFLASH, Queerler! She’s learning just how much she doesn’t need you right now, so I guess it’s time to face your fears!

This isn’t what I meant, but go off ig (don’t, actually, this is awful for everyone involved).

No way you expect El to buy this. You’ve expressed this fear of "losing El" to Will, I’ll give you that, but nothing you’ve done IN FRONT OF EL has conveyed this. Your letters weren’t helping, and you being there in person only made it worse.

Eagerly awaiting the day Michael Wheeler stops lying.

Well, I guess he doesn’t lie ALL the time.

[miwiheroes]

Dropping Byler Evidence Every Day Until Season 5

. ݁₊ ⊹ . ݁˖ . ݁ Day 10: End of Season 3 pt 1/3 . ݁₊ ⊹ . ݁˖ . ݁

Yep, there are going to be three parts to this because there simply is just so much to talk about regarding the ending of S3, and I think it's one of the most pivotal scenes for byler and mileven. I'm going to start off by talking about the contrast between Mike and Will's goodbye scene versus Mike and El's.

Prior to this scene, we see through the whole season that Mike and Will drift apart due to Mike being in a relationship with El and prioritising that over anything else. The story really is about Will being sad that he's drifting apart from Mike, DND being the medium that it's being told through. Basically, DND is the symbol for their relationship and we see that, immediately, Mike is worried that Will is going to throw away their friendship/connection when he goes to California.

This whole scene is literally just a double meaning. It uses DND and childhood memories like that as a stand-in for how they feel about each other.

Will then saying this^^ basically is him asking if him and Mike will still be friends when he comes back to Hawkins and whether things will still be the same between them.

With this, Mike could just be asking if Will is going to make another friend group that he prefers to the original Party. But I don't think he alone is worried for Dustin and Lucas as well, they could have easily had a group scene, but this whole DND arc has really focused on Mike and Will, showing that their relationship is special, and that DND is more of a stand-in symbol of their relationship too.

He sounds worried and anxious, and this makes sense to close their arc in season 3, since it leads into the next season where they have problems about Mike being worried that he's 'losing Will'.

This scene is basically:

Mike: "What if you want to be friends with someone else? Not just friends, but have our specific friendship?"

Will: "LITERALLY NEVER. WILL NEVER HAPPEN."

This scene really erases any doubt that they're just gonna have Will get a new love interest, especially at the very end of season 5. This scene is just another scene to perpetuate the idea that Will is committed to Mike, and the fact that the creators knew in this moment that Will was in love with Mike, just proves that even more. Along with the quote 'Yeah [I] need you, Mike. And [I] always will' in S4.

Afterwards as well, the smiles they give to each other are literally the flirtiest thing ever I can't even watch it without getting some vibes I don't know how anyone could ever think that they are just straight dudes having a moment yea sure

Now onto my next point about this scene. The end of S3 has all these little scenes because they are transitions scenes from S3 to S4, kind of like at the end of S1 and S2 to show you which stage the characters are at in their relationships with other characters and what needs to be addressed in the next season.

There are moments where they try and show you that there needs to be a next season. The writers have these little moments with a couple where you think there's going to be a turning point, but it ends up being the opposite. Instead, one of the characters chooses the 'safe path' where they were at the beginning of the season, BUT things have changed in their character, meaning if feels a bit wrong/off.

This exact thing happens with Jancy in season 1 and it happens with Byler in season 3.

Exhibit A: Nancy and Jonathan have a moment that implies something between them, satisfyingly rounding out their arc for the season, but still leaving the audience wonder what's about to happen next.

Nancy then chooses 'the safe path' with Steve, which is where she started out in season 1, but her character has changed enough that we see a moment of uncertainty in her:

Exhibit B: Mike and Will have a moment that implies something between them, satisfyingly rounding out their arcs for that season surrounding each other and their friendship, but it still leaves the audience wondering if they'll be okay next season.

Mike then chooses 'the safe path' by getting back together with El. Mind you, when Mike and Will had the first conversation, he thought he was broken up with her. But now she's saying they're back together, which is where they started out in season 3, but Mike's character has changed enough that we see a moment of uncertainty just like with the Stancy scene.

After this, in both their respective next seasons, we have Jancy and Byler talking about the missed opportunities from these two scenes:

Jancy's is: "I waited" "Only like... a month."

Byler's is them talking about how they barely called each other and everything, so they're clearly similar and a very obvious parallel. I mean we even have the Stancy and Mileven arcs where one of them can't say I love you to the other!!

(also while making this my tumblr started to freak the fuck out what is HAPPENING CHAT)

[you-were-alone-too]

the aftermath of eddie's death & what it means for mike's arc in season 5

someone may have already posted a similar theory before, so i apologize if i'm super late to this, but i've had this theory in mind ever since the s5 set pictures of dustin and mike were dropped, and i've been wanting to make a post about it ever since. basically, we're going to take a look at eddie's respective relationships with dustin and mike and how his death will affect them both, but especially mike in s5.

in s4, the show made it super clear that eddie had a close relationship with the boys in the party, more specifically mike and dustin (since lucas is on a quest to be popular and joined the basketball team, we can guess this prevented them from being as close). although we don't get to see much of eddie's relationship with mike, his friendship with dustin is heavily established throughout the entirety of the season. while both mike and dustin value eddie for being a cooler, older high school boy that embraces their shared interests despite the fact that it makes him an outcast, the impact of these relationships, and ultimately, his death, will affect them in completely different ways.

while both mike and dustin value eddie's commitment to embracing his true self/interests, the difference in the impact of their respective relationships is that mike struggles with the fact that he's different whereas dustin is more comfortable in his own identity.

a great example of this is when eddie talks about how he remembers the first time that he met dustin and mike; he says dustin was wearing a weird al t-shirt, which he "thought was brave," while mike was wearing "whatever his mommy bought him from the goddamn gap". not to mention mike trying to "dress cool" when he visits el in california, being afraid of seeming childish by playing d&d and liking christmas presents, not to mention:

so what does this have to do with their arcs in s5, particularly mike's?

eddie's character represents one of the show's core themes: non-conformity. right before eddie dies, he makes dustin promise to never change. and when dustin tells wayne that he was with eddie when the earthquake hit, the main thing he emphasizes is that eddie never changed even as he was dying.

one of the first scenes that gaten filmed for s5 shows him wearing his hellfire club t-shirt, which is now faded and full of holes, and his hair is also grown out even longer (possibly to resemble eddie's hair, like mike in s4). in the picture of the party members' hands on top of each other, we can also see he's wearing (presumably) one of eddie's rings.

as for mike, one of the first pictures we see of him on set for s5 shows him with a haircut and outfit that nearly resembles his appearance in s1. after the beginning of s4 showed mike growing out his hair (which was confirmed to be inspired by eddie), playing d&d again, and saying he doesn't want to be popular, we now see him in s5 conforming back to how he used to dress. how his parents want him to look. normal.

in the aftermath of eddie's death, it's clear that as a symbol of non-conformity and self-acceptance, his death has impacted dustin and mike in completely different ways.

for dustin, he sees eddie's untimely death as a legacy he must continue. a vow he made to eddie in his dying breath to never change. and now, he's sticking to his word by embracing all that eddie did and stood for in life, almost as if he's trying to physically emulate eddie to become that symbol for himself and others.

as for mike, he's lost without that symbol. he saw eddie as a symbol of hope, safety, and bravery, a person that made him feel like it's okay to be different, to stand out, to not conform with what society wants him to be. without eddie, he's on the opposite trajectory; now that eddie's gone, that reassurance and safety he felt about standing out is gone too, and now he's regressing into the person that he thinks everyone expects him to be.

it's not that shocking since as soon as he's away from eddie in s4, he goes back to trying to fit in around el. but what's even more interesting is that mike seems to become himself again once it's just him and will in s4; although will carries himself in a much more subtle way than eddie, will also inspires mike to feel confident in himself, to feel like he can be different.

but before there was eddie as a symbol of non-conformity, there was jonathan byers. from the get-go in season 1, we see jonathan encouraging will to be himself, such as telling him "you shouldn't like things because people tell you you're supposed to." then we see mike get a similar, louder version of this encouragement in the form of eddie. both mike and will have role models that encourage them to be different. both mike and will feel like they can be themselves around each other in a way they can't with anyone else because they're the same kind of different. "i saw you on the swings, and you were alone too" "maybe i feel like i lost you or something" "hawkins, it's not the same with you." "you make [me] feel like [i'm] not a mistake at all, like [i'm] better for being different" "we'll go crazy together, right?"

even though will does make mike feel like it's okay to be himself, it's not enough to fully pull him out of his shell. eddie had that power as an older male role model that mike could look up to and admire. someone that could give him a look into the future and show him that being different on the outside isn't all that bad. but then, not only does eddie die, but even in death, he's still viewed as satanic and monstrous because he was openly different.

now in s5, mike is going to have to come to grips with eddie's death and the loss he associates with that. how he thinks that eddie being dead is proof that standing out is dangerous, that it's wrong, that it's sinful. he has a lot of fear to work through, but in the end, he's going to get there, and will is going to be there at his side the entire time, reminding him that they make each other feel like they're better for being different, so it must not be so bad after all.

[longtallglasses]

some miwi headcanons just bc ! older ones

i see young mike as kind of loud and not realizing how loud (and annoying) his yelling near people is (ie karen yelling in s1 “mike let’s go!” “COMING!!!”) however he quickly learns not to yell around will, adopting his softer voice for him BUT

in school he’s constantly calling over to will “will come here” “will sit next to me” “will! over here! look at this!” trying to get his attention “will, will, hey will…” other kids are like dude shut up… so many kids know will’s name who’ve never seen him, and mike’s thought of as that kid who’s always calling out for his friend.

i’m an avid rock collector!mike enjoyer. on the playground, in the forest, at the park, at the lake. he’s picking up all the cool ones, storing them away for very important scientific reasons like “this one’s shiny in A Different way!” he sets aside his favorites to show and give to will, very much in the style of a cat bringing a dead rodent to their owner, like “got something special just for you :) a Very Cool Rock :)” will loves how much mike enjoys it and is very excited to receive them, feeling quite special.

will loves stuffed animals (i mean we been knew) when he was younger they all had names and backstories, interpersonal drama and storylines he played out. two stuffed cats he definitely thought of as him and mike subconsciously, as they were best friends. he would act out little dramatic scenes of them running away from some oppressive kingdom, going on an adventure and meeting new friends along the way. … and he may have made them kiss a few times …

obviously small will loved drawing, but i don’t think he was always confident in his skill. after people tell him he’s good he gets caught up in trying to be really good, and gets frustrated when he can’t do something the way he wants. hence crumpled up attempts in the trash mike fishes out. there’s a spell of time where he gives up for a bit and jonathan asks why he hasn’t seen him drawing lately, and will says he doesn’t think he can get any better, it’s too hard. jonathan tells him it doesn’t matter if it’s perfect, he should just draw to make himself happy “draw for the campaigns, your friends think it’s so cool” so will keeps at it focusing on drawing what he thinks him and his friends will appreciate

while watching scary movies in the basement mike and will always held hands under blankets. it started when they were younger and they first got permission to watch a scary movie, they didn’t want to admit they might be getting too scared. during a big jump their hands reached out on instinct and too caught up in the movie they didn’t let go. when it was over they didn’t talk about it, but then it just kept happening every time they got scared. which led to holding hands when upset outside of watching movies. they never really discussed it, it just felt like their little secret thing.

all the boys were nice to holly but will was the only friend who actually liked seeking her out to play w them. (fascinated by a little sister unlike lucas and only-child dustin) mike and will would play games with her sometimes, will thinking she was really cute, and mike thinking it was cute will really liked her. cue karen thinking will is the best influence on her son

i have such a strong image of kindergarten miwi right after they become friends making mud pies together every recess. their teacher scolds them the first few times having to scrub their hands when they come back in. it gets so bad when the recess monitor sees them heading for the dirt they’re yelling “Michael! William! don’t even think about it!” they think it’s so funny to rile them up, they start spreading mud on each others arms “will you need more than that!” they only try to eat it a few times, it does taste really gross. after they’re banned from the dirt, they move to the sand box, it’s only a bit cleaner.

[alcalystrasz]

I want to point out the dialogue between Mike and Will on the night of Halloween, about Max. And some other stuff about why Mike dislikes Max's presence and how their duo tells a lot about Mike and El's relationship.

[Very long post]

So, Mike and Will say:

Mike: Did you agree to this?

Will: To what?

Mike: To her joining our party?

Will: It's just for Halloween.

Mike: You should've checked with me.

Will: Well... they were excited, I guess I thought you'd be okay with it.

Mike: She's ruining the best night of the year.

And right after, Mike leaves Will alone, joining the others because he has to.

So, in this scene, Mike is upset about Max hanging out with them on the night of Halloween. He thinks she's joining the party and even says that she's ruining the best night of the year. Will says that it's just for Halloween, implying that she is not going to join Mike's party (since he's the founder), their band, and that he agreed to Lucas' and Dustin's idea because they were excited, meaning that Will gave his validation because he cares about what the other members of the party want. On the other hand, Mike doesn't seem to care about it.

He accuses Will when he's moping and then saying "Did you agree to this?" implying that he's not happy about the fact that he agreed about a girl hanging out with them. When Will explains it's for 1 night, he says that he should've asked him. He's mad because the others didn't wait for his response. We know the party is a democracy, which means everyone gives their opinion on every subject before taking a decision. So here, Mike is mad because no one asked for his. Especially, Will. He's upset about Max, but also about Will, who didn't ask for Mike's opinion about her.

When Will explains that he thought he'd be okay with it, Mike just says she's ruining the night. Why would Max ruin the best night of the year? She's a new girl. She should be accepted, right? Everybody is nice to her. Why isn't Mike? He's probably upset because of Eleven, you may think. Because he lost a girl he liked (either romantically or platonically doesn't really matter here), and so seeing another one joining in, just makes him sad and upset because he lost El. Maybe he doesn't want it to happen again, or maybe he accuses Eleven of being gone.

Mike is sad, true, but he's mostly mad that El abandonned him. Mike's biggest fear is to lose the people who need him. He wants to be needed, he says it in S4.

"What if after this is over, she- she doesn't need me anymore?"

Will understands that feeling. And he knows Will is scared of losing Eleven for that.

The reason he was upset about Max's presence, is because he was low-key upset about Eleven's missing presence. She made the decision to destroy that demogorgon in S1 and to disappear with it. She said goodbye to Mike, after he took the whole season taking care of her. He feels betrayed.

And this betrayed feeling comes back when he finds out that she's back later in the season. When he sees her, he's firstly happy, happy to see her back.

He got tears into his eyes. Remember after the Halloween day, when everybody tries to find Dart (the baby Demogorgon), Mike enters the boy's changing room and meets Max. When he yells at her to go home, they have a dialogue:

Max: Why do you hate me so much?

Mike: I don't hate you. How can I hate you? I don't even know you.

Max: Yeah but you don't want me in your Party!

Mike: Correct!

Max: Why not?

Mike: Because you're annoying! Also, we don't need another Party member. I'm our Paladin, Will's Cleric, Dustin's our Bard, Lucas' our Ranger and El's our Mage!

He admits not "hating" Max. He doesn't hate her directly, but there is a reason he doesn't like her presence. He doesn't want her in their Party. He says that she's annoying, but what did she do? Absolutely nothing but trying to fit in. And right after that he brings up D&D. D&D is Mike's safe place, he's been loving it since his childhood. It's his passion, and he doesn't abandon it even after Will moves out to California. He loves it, and he always had.

So, if D&D has such a big place in Mike's heart, why did he abandon it in S3? I'll move to that later but let's go back to Max.

After bringing up D&D, he brings up Eleven. He says that she's their Mage. Mind you, Eleven was never introduced to D&D and never been an actual part of their Party since she's been there just one week in their lives. So why putting El, a girl who disappeared yet he liked, in something that you passion but never introduced to? The reason is simple. He may be mad about Eleven leaving him, he's still sad about her gone. So he associated her with something he enjoys: D&D. But why's that? Why did he associate D&D with El? Because it makes him feel like she's still there. He probably even thought about initiating Eleven into D&D if they found her ever again.

Now, let's go back to Max. Mike doesn't like Max's presence in S2 for specific reasons. She reminds him of Eleven, that makes sense. She's like "special" since nobody asked for his opinion on Halloween night, makes sense. But that's not it. Mike hating on Max has been one of the things this season. Why did the Duffers choose to make Mike hate Max? They could've made them friends and make Mike talk to Max about Eleven or a past love, whatever. But they didn't. They specifically made Mike hate on Max. And it continues in S3, while in S4 they seem to have grown up and stopped shooting at each other.

So, in S2, Mike seems to dislike Max's presence, as she's maybe trying to fit into their party when he doesn't want it. And yet, this still happens:

Cute smiles exchanged to one another. They fought before, why smiles now? Because Eleven is watching. It seems like the scenes between Mike and Max only are fights, but scenes between Mike, Max and Eleven included, are better and seem better. Why's that? Eleven is jealous. She thinks Max is here to steal Mike from her, until they become friends in S3. It's okay to be jealous, but something is off about it.

Remember that we see Mike talking to El through a talkie walkie in his basement at the beginning of the season. And in their reunion, El cuts Mike when he tells her for how long he's been trying to reach her: she knows, she's been listening but couldn't answer because of Hopper. But she knew that he was missing her. Missing her presence. Which is why he was annoyed by another girl, Max's presence. But it doesn't explain why she made Max fall on her skateboard out of jealousy.

She knows Mike has been missing her and she knows he probably wants to just forget it, he's losing more and more hope. Then a girl shows up, he exchanges his first smile with her, and she ruins the moment (it is a bit selfish). But then, Max says that it felt like she lost control of the board and Mike immediately thinks of Eleven. He tries to look for her but she disappears because Mike is worried about Max possibly injured.

What I'm trying to say here, is that it feels like Max has a bigger position in Mike and El's relationship than we think.

Her presence annoys him, but at the same time, he can't help but letting his real self speak and be nice and worried for her.

Switching to S3...

In S3, Mike dates Eleven. And this is annoying everybody in the Party.

Dustin: It's bullshit! I just got home.

Lucas: Oh El, let's make out forever and never hang out with any of our friends!

Will: You're ruining our Party! [...] Really? Where is Dustin right now? See you don't know and you don't even care and obviously he doesn't either and I don't blame him! You're destroying everything and for what? So you can swap spit with some stupid girl?!

Max: He's a piece of shit. [...] I bet him and Lucas are like swallowing in self pity right now "Oh I hope they take us back..."

Max kept trying to remove Eleven from her relationship with Mike although at the beginning she liked it: "It's romantic" and "Oh yeah really mature Lucas..."

El and Mike's relationship was something nobody wanted in their Party, although Lucas tried to help Mike, desperately because he cares about his friend, he was still low-key annoyed about Mike not being able to have a normal relationship with Eleven.

Their relationship was pointing out how it wasn't working. For everyone else and for them. Max and Mike were even more arguing this season because she was interfering with their relationship. El didn't seem to care about her breakup with Mike because she was having fun with Max. She was good independent, and it showed that she can be even better without Mike and Hopper. Max's role this season was like the angel, and Mike was the demon. He wanted to get back with her although she wasn't happy in this relationship and Max wanted to make her see she doesn't need him and show her how to have the taste of life without him.

She was very important, and her dialogues with Mike this season proves that Max has always been a problem within Mike because she's "annoying" and he always looks out to her whenever he's making a decision so she can't ruin it again, or maybe because he's trying to see if it's okay, and normal to do it.

Max has been a specific part of Mike's internalized homophobia and willing to act normal.

In S2 he hates her presence because he feels like she tries to fill in for El.

In S3 he hates her presence because he feels like she tries to fill in for himself.

Because Mike tried to be a normal boyfriend for the other's eyes but just a normal friend for his own eyes. And he felt like she was trying to replace him.

Now, S4.

This season was so different from the others. They seem to have cooled down, they don't fight anymore althought there are still some punches thrown when they're not near. Like what Max comments about Mike's basement. But the most interesting part of this season, is this shot:

Mike hates Max's presence in S2.

Mike hates the fact she's ruining his relationship with Eleven in S3 and replacing him.

Mike seems to notice something wrong with Max in S4.

Their only dialogue this season, is this:

Mike: Tonight?

Max: They call it a tournament. You win one game, you go on to play the next until there's only one team left.

And Dustin was included in it.

Other than that, they didn't exchange any words.

Why's that?

Max in S4 had her own storyline with Billy's death. Mike and El were still on a relationship but it was distanced. Max didn't really focus on El and Mike anymore because of her depression and we instead got to see more of Lumax. However, this, is exactly a proof to show that Mike and El's relationship is not working and Mike's internalized homophobia is showing.

Remember at the end of S3, we see Mike hug his mother when Will and El left for California.

But this season, Eleven learnt to be more independent on her own, remembering what Max taught her. She's still playing a role without being present.

As for Mike, he's not pushed by anyone else to continue this relationship with El. We pushed him in S1 (mostly Lucas and Nancy), we did in S2 (Eleven herself), we did in S3 (himself and Max) and now who forces him to continue it? Nobody. He just continues it because himself, because he wants to continue to feel normal. And we can see he's not having any help since El and him only fight this season, and they even did in S3 although he had help from Lucas.

The difference between the two straight teenage relationships we have (Lumax // Mlvn) is notable. The quite legit and healthy relationship helps the toxic one. But the reason Lumax is Endgame and Mlvn isn't is because Lucas and Max both listen to each other, they care for each other and do things together although they can fight a bit. However Mlvn doesn't so any of that. They have communication problems, Mike can't say I love you to her, and they are too different from one another, they can't do anything together without it to go wrong.

So, to resume a bit Max has been playing a specific role for Mike and El's relationship, Mike and El's feelings.

S2: Mike was upset about Eleven being gone (she made the decision of sacrificing herself and he lost her, so he's mad about the fact she made this decision and abandoning him). And he was upset about Max trying to replace her.

S3: Mike was upset against Mike because she tried to mess up his relationship with Eleven (as he tried to fit in, the same way she did before). And because he was scared she could replace him, that El would need her instead of him.

S4: Mike and Max cooled down although her influence on El awakened as she was expecting more of Mike now that Max showed her what real boyfriends do.

This post was probably hard to understand or seemed unlogic, messy but I tried to put in words what I had in my mind and probably made a terrible job of it. I just want to say how their dialogues and moments together (Max/Mike) have subtext and sub meanings for both byler and mlvn. Byler because of Mike's internalized homophobia and Mlvn because of Mike's willing to act straight.

Tell me what you think of it or there are points you want me to clarify.

[mike-haters-dni]

Another Unpopular Mike Opinion Post Woah How Do I Still Have Things To Say

Alright, so I know nobody wants to hear this but: Mike as a character does in fact function almost solely in relation to the people around him. Specifically, the Party and Eleven. What do I mean by that? I mean his main hobbies are playing Dungeons and Dragons, something he literally can’t do without his friends, and being El’s boyfriend—which I know is an even more unpopular sentiment but guess what. He exists in the story to be the leader of the Party and El’s love interest. He almost literally never does anything for just himself unless you count those two episodes in s4 where he’s playing/trying to find a sub for dnd—which I kinda do? but also don’t because he's with Dustin (and Lucas’ ghost), and also he has a Leader Moment during the game. Every other character (probably) gets some Thing or plot line(s) they get to do at least partially solo. Dustin gets Dart in s2, Lucas has the basketball team, Max deals with Billy and then his death, Will has the whole possession arc, El....I mean she literally got her own solo episode. But Mike? He barely interacts with his own family, who are mostly also main characters. Really the only time we see Mike alone on screen is in s2 when he’s going through his depression, but he’s depressed because he's mourning Eleven, aka acting as her love interest. But the thing is, that actually is his special solo plotline. Its actually the most significant of the whole show. Or it would be, if it didn't mean that everyone's favorite Main Boy of s1 became a supporting character for the new Mainest Character of the Show, who now gets to do way more shit than him because like, she has magic powers and is the plot. But yeah, that's why people say Mike was ruined after s1 even though he's the same exact guy throughout the show.

But anyway, I think this investment in others is what makes Mike the things people like about him too. Being a character that is solely focused on those around him is what makes him such a natural leader and caretaker, and he was and will continue to be that. And just to prove the haters wrong here is a list of every time Mike acted as a leader in each season:

S1: I mean do I need to explain this one it’s the only season anyone likes

S2: He definitely takes more of a backseat this season (having less to do) but still, he acts like he has the authority to prevent people from joining the friend group and takes charge when Dart becomes a problem. Also, no one else showed up to check on Will and stay by his side to help him through the Events, almost like Mike feels a natural responsibility for his friends or something. At the very end of the season he's right back to form when El needs help and he comes up with and executes the plan to set the tunnel on fire.

S3: Again, he spends a good amount of time being “helped” by Lucas this season, but he’s the one who comes up with the sauna plan (and uses his own voice as bait lol). Also it’s small but he’s the one at the head of the group when they go to sneak into the movies. (Worth noting that Mike spends a lot of action time with Nancy this season, who he is definitely outranked by in terms of group leadership, so he naturally takes more of a backseat. As he should)

S4: You’re expecting me to say he takes a backseat again right? WRONG. He's the one yelling after Eleven that he’s going to fix everything, he's the one who finds the number in the pen, he’s the one who thinks to go to Suzie’s, he’s the one who spots El out in the desert. He spends the whole season bossing Jonathan around and you know, he deserves some credit for that. Also during the meeting with Suzie Mike is in the center of the frame doing the most talking. ALSO, again it's small, but during the dnd game even after his own character was dead and he didn’t have any real input on the situation, Dustin still makes a point to ask Mike what he thinks they should do. Like, he's a leader idk what to tell you.

(Also can I say, god forbid Mike spend a few scenes not in charge. God forbid he get supported himself every once in a while. Like, wtf do people want from him actually. He's a clever kid with a personality so strong it makes all his friends listen to him. Give him a fuckin break.

Personally I don't think any of this is bad writing or whatever. I think its good writing for a leader/love interest to the MC character. I think Mike is someone who, due to his insecurities, defines himself based on his relationships. He wants to be useful and important to people, and this causes him to both selflessly protect the people he loves and freak out whenever he feels like they're pulling away from him. He's useful to the story for both action and drama. And like, realistically, only finding self-worth in other people is unhealthy—but also, valuing your relationships is good and wanting to protect your friends is good. And also he's a character in a story about the power of friendship. And I suppose you could take Will's speech to mean that instead of feeling all this pressure to Do Good to be loved he doesn't need to try at all and its not something he can earn or lose, he's loved because he just is That Guy and always will be. However...if both El and Mike's arcs in s5 involve letting go of responsibility and accepting love and support from people around you just know I called it.

Anyway everyone hates how Mike only ever gets to be Eleven's boyfriend except for ME. Because its WHAT SHE DESERVES

[milevenstancyendgame]

In Defense Of Mike

Sometimes antis inspire you to write meta - I don't know why, but today I feel like going through these Mike accusations that someone left on my Eleven post, lol:

No one talks shit about my boy Mike on my post.😎

-"And not to make this about shipping because El is her own person and should be discussed outside of ships, BUT" - goes on long ass shipping discourse.

You nailed it right there, buddy.😂

-"Mike babies her throughout their relationship":

I think it's so funny that those who are on the fence shouting about El needing to break up with Mike, to be independent, are doing exactly what they accuse Mike of doing (gaslight much?). You're willfully ignoring her love for Mike, which is canonical, projecting your own dislike of him onto her, like you know what's best for her. You're babying her.

So when does he baby her? I can't think of any time, but since you also said that he's protective and "El wants to be trusted and supported", I'm gonna take a wild guess and say you're talking about SOME scenes between El and Mike in s3.

I think it's funny that antis wave Mike's protectiveness over El in s3 as though it was some big red flag.

Like, ya'll act as though he wanted to lock her up in the cabin. Oh wait, that was Hopper in s2, actually. I don't see you hating on Hopper though, even though he's an adult.

Mike is worried and traumatised from losing El several times before. Yes, he doesn't know how to deal with this, but like you keep saying, El is her own person and should be respected as such.

So what does El do? She shows that she doesn't like it, and in an intimate moment away from the over-the-top comedy of s3, she tells him "I need you to trust me".

And how does Mike react? Did you actually watch that? Because it doesn't sound like it. He ACCEPTS what she says IMMEDIATELY, even gives Max an acknowledging glance, and backs off, letting her do her thing.

Like this right there. That's growth.

And that's him doing exactly what you say El needs - that's trusting, supportive, and letting her decide for herself. Which, by the way, he has been doing the whole time and continues to do.

He apologies to her and shows that he has been self-reflecting, and is overly hard on himself. He's aware that he was jealous and that he doesn't know how to deal with his strong love for El.

That's healthy and wholesome, and also huge for a 14-year old emotionally neglected boy, who has no blueprint for a healthy romantic relationship.

But no, you don't want to see this. Nor anything else, apparently. Just literally this ONE DAY on which he was overwhelmed and worrying about El. And you interpret that as "babies her throughout their relationship". That is…wild.

-"Mike puts El on a pedestal" & "Mike never compliments El's personality" :

Wow, this feels like the most unjust accusation of all. You interpret him thinking and telling her she's a superhero as putting her on a pedestal?

First of all, how can you do that, when you just said that he babies her throughout.😆 It almost seems like your various views about him are incompatible...maybe because they're not founded on reality...👀

He's the one who constantly reminds everyone else that El is not a machine, that she has limits, that she has human needs...seriously, have you watched the show? S1? When everyone saw her as a problem or a weirdo or a traitor or a monster or a criminal or a science experiment....and he was the one who treated her for what she was - a scared, friendless child in danger. An equal. A friend.

How come you're not hating on Dustin and Lucas? Maybe you're able to see how they changed? Or Max, because she's in awe of El in s2 and in s3 is 100%ly confident that she will be able to defeat the monster on her own? Maybe you're able to see that she had a normal reaction to finding out about someone's super powers and that she simply was mistaken? Or Steve, because he refers to her as "this girl with superpowers that we usually rely on"? Maybe you're able to see that this didn't reflect any dehumanising on his part?

Oh, but Mike is different of course.🙄

Mike never treats El as anything else but his equal. If he actually put her on a pedestal, he'd constantly be like: "Oh, but I'm sure El can fix it!" for every problem they have, and he'd be disappointed and shocked to witness her humanity - her flaws, her needs, her imperfections.

Well, he doesn't. On the contrary, he tries to provide for her every need, reminding others of them, is worried about her overexerting herself (which you hated on a moment ago, but now strangely seem to have forgotten), and never pushes her to fight for them. He's also always the one who wants to provide a back-up for her, to not let her fight alone or do everything for them (like in the caves in s2, or in s3 when they try to overturn the car in the mall).

Okay, and my personal favourite: "He also does this with Dustin and Will" So I'm guessing you're referring to Mike telling Dustin in s1 that his cleidocranial dysplasia is like a superpower, after being bullied; and in s2, when he tells Will he's like a super-spy now. And of course telling El that she's a superhero.

And you think this is bad????????

😳

Sorry, I just....HOW? He's literally reassuring Dustin that he not only accepts him as he is, but that his difference is cool, he compares him to the coolest people they know and admire, the super heroes from comics. He's trying to cheer him up after he got humiliated for being different. I mean...I guess if he had given him a hug, you would have found a way to interpret that as bad.😬

And the same with Will - he sees that his friend is barely keeping it together, he's rightly panicking, because he's possessed by an interdimensional monster, but Mike finds a way to distract him, invite his mind to see things in a different way that actually EMPOWERS him, reassuring him that they won't let the monster spy back, and again, this is bad, because?

Or do you mean it's only bad when he does it with El?😂 Because it's the same thing. He's trying to reassure her that she's not a monster, that he loves her.

And once again - when she shows in s4 that she doesn't like something he's doing (not saying "I love you"), he accepts that, he feels bad, and tries to give her exactly what she asked for at the next opportunity!

Apparently you didn't see that either.

And "he never compliments her personality". How many hoops do you want him to jump through?🤣

Mike shows that he loves and respects El all the time, he doesn't need to say "You have an awesome personality." for El to feel that. And she never expressed any need for that. Does Hopper compliment Joyce's personality to her face? Did Joyce do that for Hopper? Did Nancy do that for Steve or Jonathan or vice versa? Did Max say that to Lucas? I guess Lucas is the only one who really loves his partner, because he did that once.🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣

Oh, and of course, the whole monologue at the end of s4 doesn't count, because. "I love you on your good days, I love you on your bad days, I love you without your powers, I love you with your powers...I love you exactly for who you are."

That's somehow not valid, hm?

Mike can't win in your eyes, because you don't want him to. This is called scapegoating, btw.

Lastly, it's strange that you have a reference to him in your username, when you clearly think he's so horrible and accuse him of all this...together with a reference to Will...hmm...how mysterious....🙄🙄🙄 Almost like you had double standards for a certain agenda.🤔

*Drops mic*

[teambyler]

"Byler Endgame, One Episode at a Time" - s5e1

Plot beats and scenes leading to a Byler endgame, one episode at a time, for Season 5 of Stranger Things. (This is just for fun! I have no insider knowledge!)

Also see Part 0, where I explain what I think a Byler Endgame has to address.

s5e1

Since we’re going back to s1 themes, a shadowy U.S. government organization is involved. It wants to contain and study the hellscape in Hawkins. People are ordered out of parts of Hawkins. The Byers don’t have a home in Hawkins. Joyce stays at Hopper’s, with Jonathan too probably (Ted wouldn’t let Nancy’s boyfriend sleep in the house. He’s perfectly fine with “Mike’s friend Will” though!)

When Will arrives, he asks to stay in Mike’s basement. Mike says it’s cold and uncomfortable and he doesn’t have to. Will says he’s fine, he prefers a quiet place to do art, he likes that it’s where they played D&D... “We get to play D&D again, yes?” “Of course!” Mike insists on putting a bed in there, etc. Will is fine with the couch. The whole time Will is trying to be cool, trying to get over loving his straight best friend.

Will walks into Mike’s room, to see that Mike has framed the D&D painting and is hanging it on the wall. Mike: “This is a really nice present you gave.” Will’s in shock… does he know? It becomes clear Mike just thinks Will and El talked about what to put in a gift they were both to give Mike, while things were still good between him and El. “It’s too bad things went south so quickly…” Mike shares that he and El aren’t seeing each other. Will looks at the painting, thoughts racing… Mike says he doesn’t know what’s going on with El because after the pizza shop he thought they were official again, but she’s still being cold toward him.

Will sleeps on the basement couch, remembering their "Crazy together" conversation. He cries quietly.

After coaxing Lucas who’s spending time at the hospital with Max, the Hellfire Club play D&D in Mike’s basement. Dustin is the dungeon master. It’s a very feel-good, “the party is back together” scene. Will’s so happy to be playing D&D with Mike and is sitting next to him. In the game, Will risks his life to cast prismatic spray and save the group. The spell fails. In the game, Mike risks his life to protect Will. Will is blushing and it feels kinda romantic.

“A PLOT” SHENANIGANS. Will is rubbing his neck a lot and this is a Will-focused season. (There’s a million ways the A plot can go down so I won’t even try!)

School was disrupted by the events of s4. Bullies with nothing better to do target the Hellfire Club members, blaming them for recent events. Bully #1 lost a loved one when the hellfire opened. The party has to split up to get away from them. Bully #1 corners Will and says he hopes he gets AIDS. Will is terrified and once he’s alone starts crying.

Jonathan senses Will is really down. He invites Robin over. She arrives and kisses Vickie goodbye in front of Will. Will is shocked. Jonathan leaves the room, and Robin and Will connect. Will asks what it’s like to come out. Robin says some people shunned her, but others like Steve and Jonathan didn’t. She found out who her real friends were: “I got to have friends who love me for being me.” Will cry-smiles and thinks about this. Robin says to tell the people you trust the most.

Joyce and El are at Hopper’s cabin. Will looks like he's ready to tell both of them. But he waits for El to step out. Will sits down next to mom and comes out to her. Will: “Do you still love me?” She goes into Mama Bear mode: “Of course I do!” She hugs him. She's heartbroken to think Will didn't know how she'd answer. “Look at me Will. I’ve GONE TO HELL AND BACK FOR YOU WILL. I’ll do it again! I will always, ALWAYS love you.” They have a big ugly-cry hug.

FOLLOW ME for the next part of “Byler Endgame, One Episode at a Time”!

Part 0 (what a Byler endgame needs to address) Next episode

-teambyler

[do-u-know-this-autisticcharacter]

Do You Know This (non-canon) autistic Character?

Propaganda:

This Tumblr post. Which says (if you can't see it)

"why mike wheeler is autistic

these are some of my thoughts on why i think mike wheeler is autistic. 

he has narrow special interests (dnd, science, writing)

he only has a couple of friends, also with the same interests as him (it is common that autistic people have a difficult time making friends)

he hates change (he didn’t like the addition of max into the group without being made aware of it first, instead of using highschool as an opportunity to be someone else like lucas did he went back to doing things that brought him comfort like dnd, he’s always the first to notice when something is off with will (him missing/being possessed))

he is very logical (dustin and lucas ask why they can’t just let his mom deal with el when they find her in s1 and mike reasons that they’ll get caught for sneaking out so they have to handle it themselves, he rationalizes most of the plans in the party (in s3 when lucas says they win if they get the mindflayer out of billy mike reminds him that they wont because it didn’t work with will, jonathan thinks he’s ridiculous for wanting to go to suzie for help in s4 but mike reasons that she is the smartest person they know)) he also doesn’t budge much on his thoughts when it comes to this

he has a difficult time with his emotions (he mixed up romantic and platonic feelings with el, he also didn’t know how to properly confront her about this when he realized), he becomes overly emotional often (when he realized hopper knew el was alive the whole time and he got angry and broke down)

he is a people pleaser (he cares a lot for his friends, especially will and el, which is why in s4 he kept pretending he was in love with el because it’s what he thought she wanted, and why he hid how will leaving affected him because he didn’t want to make their friendship awkward with his newly realized feelings)

he’s not bound to societies standards (to a degree) (why he continues to play dnd even though he gets made fun of and why the upside down wasn’t a difficult concept for him to grasp because to him it made sense easily) 

he misses sarcasm (s4 at suzie’s house)

he misses double meanings to things (his conversations with lucas in s3 about el, he took most of what he said literally)

he is very blunt (often he is quick to tell things how it is even if someone gets upset with him)"

[thestrangestthing89]

I think there are a lot of interconnected plot points to consider with Will being the center of them all. One of which is that I think he created a few characters - El, Billy, and Eddie. I think of these characters like Dawn from Buffy. She was created to be Buffy’s little sister in S5. All of her childhood memories are fabricated (along with everyone's memories of her) but from when she is created she is real and is able to form her own thoughts and relationships. I think these characters are similar to this but Will has a bit of control over them unknowingly i.e. he’s able to call for El when he needs help. I think when he feels some things strongly he ends up influencing things unintentionally. But otherwise they have their own free will. So he’s creating people, and then he’s unintentionally manipulating things that already exist based off his feelings in the moment.

In S2, Joyce finds Will’s drawing of the MF and Will tells her it’s for a story he is writing. I think there are parts of this show that have been a story he is creating - there are parts that are real and parts that are a coping mechanism for his traumatic childhood.

Eddie shows up in S4 and is frequently called a "freak" - a thing that Will is called in the first two seasons. He is a nerd who loves D&D, and this is emphasized a season after Will is desperately trying to play D&D with his friends and keeps getting ignored. But in this season, we see Eddie - who is nerdy and enthusiastic about it like Will - getting his friends back to playing D&D and making it cool. One of Mike's points to Will in S3 was that they couldn't keep playing kids games for the rest of their lives and that having girlfriends made them grown up. But here is Eddie, no girlfriend in sight and loves playing D&D. Because he is older than them, Mike and Dustin look up to him and start to embrace being nerds again. They have fun playing even though they are a little intimidated by Eddie (at least in the beginning of the season).

Eddie also says a few things that don't add up - he was held back 3 years but then Chrissy remembers him from middle school. I think there are odd discrepancies like this whenever Will is involved in manipulating his surroundings.

Eddie's role in S4 is to get Mike and Dustin back to playing together - a thing that was upsetting Will the previous season. Lucas on the other hand, still isn't interested (at least on the surface).

Eddie has other things in common with Will - he is poor and his father isn't around. He's misunderstood and made out to be the bad guy by the town but isn't responsible for any of the things he gets blamed for. We see some members of the town blame Will for being queer and they seem to see his disappearance as the starting point to their bad luck (a thing I think is going to come up again later).

By the end of the season Eddie has emphasized he is not a hero. He runs away and hides when there is trouble. Something that Will has done in the past. But when Will stands his ground in S2 against the MF, it ends up hurting him even more. And when Eddie decides to be a hero and run back out into the UD to lead the demobats away and buy more time, it ends up killing him. And the same song plays when Eddie dies as when Will dies in S1 (When it's Cold I Like to Die).

Eddie fulfilled his role in the story. He was there to reunite the party and get them interested in D&D again. Lucas does realize he doesn't want anything to do with Jason and his friends and ends up helping to protect Eddie along with the group. I think there is a bit of foreshadowing here with the town hunting the freak. I think this is likely to happen to Will next season while the group protects him.

Also interesting to note that Mike seems to have had a crush on Eddie, indicating that Will's nerdy side is actually appealing to him. Even though he tried to say otherwise in S3.

[love-byers]

I see byler. But it would make me feel so weird because Mike has liked a girl for four seasons and he has treated Will horribly, getting away from him because of a girl. I don't know, it would be pailful to rewatch the show and see all this ald later see byler being canon

i encourage you to rewatch the show because it is just flat out not true that mike "treated will horribly". if mike liking a girl for 4 seasons holds impact then so does the way mike has CANONICALLY treated will during those same seasons.

in s1 mike is determined to find will, believing he was alive even when dustin and lucas didn't. he defended will multiple times ("wait this is will's fault?" "i'm the only one acting normal here! I'm the only one that cares about will!", pushing troy down). he stayed awake in the hospital waiting room so he could go to will immediately when he woke up. he was the first one in will's hospital room and laid his head on will's chest. he breaks into a cheesy grin just watching will play dnd.

in s2 mike is extremely attentive and protective of will. he notices when will wanders outside the arcade and puts an arm around him to guide him back inside, he notices when will is being quieter than usual, he doesn't let anyone else touch will on halloween, he sees himself as will's protector, he comforts will by suggesting they'll lose their minds together, he jumps to will's defense over the dart stuff, he stands in front of will to protect him from dart, he is worked up over will missing school, he stares sadly at will's empty desk, he calls the byers house from a payphone because he's eaten up with worry, he goes to the byers house after school and bangs on the door calling for will, he holds will's hand and assures him all the terrible things he's going through are happening for a reason, he sleeps on will's floor to stay close to him, he sleeps in a chair next to wills hospital bed, he gets flustered when will remembers him despite having amnesia, he notices when something is wrong with will despite him not moving or changing his expression at all, he tearfully recounts the day he met will and describes it as the best thing he's ever done in his whole life.

in s3, yes mike is not a great friend to will all of the time, but it wasn't specifically targeted at will. he and el were being bad friends to the whole group over the summer. and despite that, mike is still attentive to will, noticing when something was wrong in the theater despite the fact that he's supposed to be paying attention to the movie like everyone else. he double checks that will is okay. he immediately back tracks and tries to keep playing dnd when will gets upset, even forcing lucas to backtrack as well. he follows after will when he storms off. he doesn't want will to bike home in the rain. he continues to apologize even though will is ignoring him. he compliments will's campaign and assured him he doesn't think its bad. he's extremely regretful after snapping and saying something hurtful to will. he calls after will, begging him not to leave. he bikes to wills house in a rainstorm and bangs on his door, apologizing and begging will to come outside and talk to him. he doesn't just accept that will doesn't want to talk to him and instead searches through the forest in the dark rain for him. he jumps to defend will and encourages the rest of the group to believe him about the mindflayer. he sticks close to will during the sauna test. he worries about will leaving him behind when he moves to california. he is delighted when will assures him thats its impossible. he tearfully hugs will goodbye. im not gonna go into the byler coding in hop's letter because some would say it's speculative, but yeah. mike was fucking devastated at losing will.

between s3 and 4 mike is eaten up by the idea of will not reaching out and making new friends. he feels like he lost will. he openly complains about joyce's job holding up the line because he wants to talk to will. he mopes in his basement and plays nintendo because he misses will. to him everything feels weird because will isn't there. hawkins no longer feels like home because will isn't there. he loves his other friends but finds that there's something different about what he feels towards will.

then in s4 mike does start out being a dick towards will. or at least it looks that way. it seems like mike doesn't want anything to do with will, but later on he flat out admits that that wasn't the case at all. he was still being highly attentive to will, analyzing his facial expressions and demeanor and hoping will to talk to him. will didn't ruin mikes day by being too involved in his date with his girlfriend, he ruined it by not being involved. he stays close to will after el hits angela, literally shoulder to shoulder with him. he seeks will out to apologize to him and let him know he didn't deserve the way he'd been treated, and goes on to tell him how much he'd missed him and how he was afraid he'd lost him. he wants them to be best friends again. he wants he and will to be a team through whatever happens next. he is overjoyed when he thinks will made a painting for him. he assures will that they will kill vecna together and puts a comforting hand on his shoulder (despite the fact that he was too s scared to hug will 5 days earlier). he stays at will's side when the world is ending right before their eyes.

i truly truly do not understand why people say will deserves better than mike because the entire fucking point of their dynamic is that he handles will with much more care than he does others. im sorry but it really just sounds like an excuse to say byler bad without sounding problematic because the truth is that you just don't want mike to be queer. mike is very tender and caring with will and trusts him above anyone else. will is the same way towards mike. and he is devastatingly in love with mike. mike who has done everything stated above for him. why would they not be a good match? why does will not deserve the person he feels understands him better than anyone else, the person who makes him feel loved and special in a word turned against him? bffr

and about mike getting away from will because of a girl, this is a very common trope in childhood friends to lovers stories. that is what deepens the relationship between the two friends. the jealousy, the pining, the emotionally charged arguments. one of the friends usually doesn't realize what they have until they are faced with losing it. hello, s3 epilogue! the love triangle dynamic has already been used multiple times in stranger things. nancy genuinely did have romantic feelings for steve even when she got with jonathan. joyce had genuine romantic feelings for bob despite the fact that she was clearly in love with hopper. the writers have clearly shown that love is something entirely separate from attraction, and that it's easy to get lost along the path to it and get those feelings mixed up. why would it be any different for mike? especially if he's queer and in love with a boy? that makes everything 100x more confusing. especially if he's bisexual because the world back then conditioned people to think there was only homosexuals and 'normal' people. it would be so difficult for mike to figure everything out if his romantic feelings towards el are very much real, because he doesn't think he can have both. he feels caught between two slides, as one might say.

so yeah rewatch the show with an open mind and i promise you it will not make you feel weird, it will actually make a whole lot more sense. and if it does make you feel weird then i think you need to address an underlying attitude towards gay people. im not flat out calling you homophobic, it's very easy to be biased and not even know it when the world is as heteronormative as it is. just try to have an open mind

[pepstarvanmoon]

I really wonder what GAs think about Mike’s overall storyline in S3 and how it extended into S4.

When I first started S3 (I didn’t start shipping Byler until the rain fight and didn’t go deeper into the fandom until after finishing S4), I didn’t really care about what Mike had going on.

He was being a typical teen with their frustrating and dismissive ways, but I wasn’t really bothered by it? I didn’t really care until it started to feel sort of shoved in my face? Like being late to the theater, ditching Dustin on his first day back, everything with Hopper tbh, lying to El, advice from Lucas, not playing DnD to look for gifts at the mall, the break up, not playing DnD (again) to wallow in self-pity and to be gross boys lol (part of that scene is just so El and Will can react to Mike being gross like why).

By the time we got to “they’re conspiring against me!” I started rolling my eyes every time Microbial’s relationship issues became the focus of a scene. It was starting to piss off other characters, too, so I felt kinda justified in how little I cared.

Then the store scene where they’re patching up El’s leg and Mike struggles (badly) not to SAY “I love you” to her face, but to somehow get her to say it for him? (Like some weird school lesson trying to get students to find the answer without outright saying it like it’s a curse or something. This show has never needed I love you’s to convey that a couple is in love, so this whole thing felt unnecessary to me my first watch). I remember sitting there wondering why I should gaf about this plotline at all. It was so drawn out for what felt like no reason, and it didn’t seem to be going anywhere? “I know that I…” Are you sure you know, Mike? Like say it or move on.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but it really had no impact until they force you to remember it during the move out scene where El says she loves him too (weird btw seeing as we got the “I love her and I can’t lose her again!” BEFORE the “you’ve never heard that term…?” I guess it was to have a ‘funny’ scene after that first encounter with ther meat flayer? Idk maybe I need to rewatch S3)

I guess they left it open ended after that uncomfortable kiss scene because it’s clearly still an issue in S4, but in my initial watch, more than it not making sense to me, I just sort of found it boring? It might’ve just been my bias because I started to enjoy Will and El’s characters more than Mike’s at the time, and Madraosis’ constant (and minuscule) problems were making them both miserable. To have it pick up again in S4 annoyed me because the S3 finale made it seem like their relationship was okay, but… did they really resolve anything?

Honestly, my biggest gripe was it being included at all. It felt unnecessary and boring at the time, but if they’re gonna keep pushing Mike’s inability to say “I love you” and function normally while in a relationship after all that bs in S3, it better be for a decent reason. It was no longer as cut and dry as I thought when I watched S4, and it’s difficult to grasp that a lot of people watching the show still think this way.

I mean, just imagine Nancy spending a whole chunk of S2 trying to convince/tell Steve she loves him and treating Jonathan like an afterthought before they get together that SAME season (like a romantic and less traumatizing spin on what happened with Barb (RIP), where they clearly demonstrated how bad it was that Nancy was getting swept up in her relationship with Steve).

Nancy getting back with Steve at the end of S1 was annoying for a lot of people, but more of an “eh, whatever” until they started having problems again in S2. Why is it literally the same storyline?? It’s pretty blatant, too. I hardly see any GA really questioning it, and if they do it’s always chalked up to bad writing (which… yeah). If it’s not because Mike and El are having legitimate problems, or about Will’s confirmed feelings, then what do the Duffer’s want me to think?

(first post but I've been lurking here so long it doesn't feel like it.)

[stranger-things-yapper]

Back on my henderhop bullshit:

So, I've been thinking about how henderhop could be canon compliant. Cuz like, henderhop right now is that couple that makes sense as a couple, but they don't have a real strong basis for getting together. So, what would it take for El to see Dustin in a romantic light?

First, it's inevitable to contrast Mike and Dustin, simply because the only person El has ever seen in a romantic light was Mike, AFTER being on a steady diet of TV romance for like a year when she was 12. To win a girl, you don't need to be the best, you just gotta be better than her ex. I believe El has a very idealized vision of romance, but Dustin can fit that bill a lot better that Mike did. So, let's see how they fare against each other.

They are both nerds, but most importantly, they are nerds in different ways. While Mike keeps trying to make the things he likes sound Cool, Actually™ to people who are uninterested (and failing miserably), Dustin talks about what he likes about the same things, without trying to make them something they are not. He's not trying to look cool or less of a nerd, he embraces that part of himself. I find it interesting how in S4, when trying to find someone to cover for Lucas in the D&D campaign, Mike first goes to people completely outside their circles, and only asks Nancy as a last resort; meanwhile, Dustin asks only people he knows well, and eventually succeeds by asking Erica, someone he bonded with previously by acknowledging their common nerdiness. I believe, if El were to ask, Dustin would go on an excited speech about how much he likes something like Lord of The Rings and she would truly understand why he thought it was so cool. She might even be entertained/endeared by how energetically or passionately he describes the plot.

Impossible not to mention how Dustin is a better boyfriend than Mike in general terms - while Mike can barely talk to El outside of making out, and their relationship falls apart once they are away, all Dustin does with his girlfriend is talk, and they didn't get sick of each other after a year. But I need to emphasize that Dustin has a way of being in love that fits El's idealized version of romance way better than Mike ever did. He gushes about Suzie every chance he gets, he refers to their relationship as "star-crossed lovers like Romeo and Juliet", they sing duets together in harmony, he built a freaking amateur radio tower just to hear her voice, God damn it! Mike didn't even manage to apologize properly for lying ONCE. He couldn't even say he loved El to her face. I believe, if El were to ever witness how Dustin talks about and/or to Suzie, she'd find him super romantic.

And something that I think is really important: El wants to be loved, wanted, cared for. She has been rejected by her aunt, she had to part ways with her sister, and 001 (🤮 hate that character) made her feel like family only to betray her trust. Brenner only wanted her to be his perfect experiment. She even lost her only healthy father figure, believing he was dead for almost a year. She needs safe haven. She needs someone who won't back out when things get tough. And Mike has only ever been a strategist, not a caregiver. As much as Mike cares about people, he doesn't go out of his way to make them comfortable while suffering - he goes and tries to fix whatever is causing the suffering. Dustin, however, is a caregiver. He has taken El's needs as a priority more than once throughout the show, since S1 even, when he went after pudding to recharge El's powers. And even in S1, he was the only one who could carry her when she couldn't stand. He even cared for a Demogorgon and didn't wave his affection even after knowing the truth, losing his cat AND being the direct target of its bloodlust. He offered it their favorite candy bar, like an overcaring dork. And it freaking worked. (S4 could have killed Steve and kept Eddie alive to protect Dustin, therefore making him realize that there's value in running away and staying alive to stay with the people who need you, but nooo we can't kill mama Steve... but I digress)

Given all these contrasts, I think it would be almost inevitable that El would fall for Dustin eventually, even if at first she'd only want to be loved by him. She just needs to be with him for long enough to see these sides of him. However, the Duffers hate me specifically and they keep El and Dustin apart for whole seasons. I would LOVE for them to interact AT ALL in S5, just to see how my analysis fares.

[strangerfigs]

maybe this is an unpopular opinion but you are just as valid of byler shipper if you have doubt or full on do not think they are gonna happen like i guess just shout out to all my bylers who are doubters because i truly as mike wheeler once said, don’t know what’s going to happen next, but i think it would be better if we were a team. anyway. like idk. i just am so unsure if they are gonna happen or not ?? like the subtext speaks volumes but i feel like they intentionally write it as it going either way. or many ways. ??? like even in the season 1, dustin saying that lucas is mike’s BEST friend makes me wonder if the duffers really didn’t see the potential of byler until later?? esp because they said they wrote mike as a very typical straight charqcter at first but then they met finn and changed his character. idk. ig i also just wonder about the party dynamics before will went missing because we really don’t actually know much about it. like did things change after will went missing because it’s evident and so clear that mike’s closest friend is will in every season after season 1 even when they are fighting and even when he is spending a lot of time with lucas. it’s just very very clear there is a bond there that is either outside of the party or closer than the party and it’s literally verbalized by mike himself in season 4 when he tells will that the others are great but it’s not the same without him. if it just wasn’t the same without him then he would just say that part but it’s clear since he mentions the others that he ranks will higher than them which is just funny because mike literally tells dystin that they are all his best friends and makes a point out of it so it’s just very funny but it really does make me wonder if it used to be like that but then mike sort of realized in s2 that will is his best friend whether that be from what happened or just like realization but just from mikes little monologue it’s also sort of implied that will is his BEST friend as that is the BEST decision he has ever made so. interesting. but yeah it just really makes me wonder the purpose of that scene with Dustin where he tells him that when the rest of the show past s1 clearly depicts will (and eleven) as the central points in mike’s plot lines and idk, maybe s3 was mike trying to return to his previous dynamic with will (pre- will being taken) but it’s no longer that dynamic anymore? and in doing so, mike kind of ruins their “new” dynamic a bit (not really but also kind of) but there is also no going back to their previous dynamic. so then in s4, mike is pretty sure that dynamic is ruined. I mean they never really made up in season 3. will brushes it off and they focus on the more important issues at hand. but it still happened, and while they have that scene at the end, where will tells him he isn’t going to join another party, I feel like that honestly just repairs the “party” dynamic esp because Will told Mike “you’re ruining the party” and Mike spent a majority of the first half of the season treating Will the same as Dustin and/or Lucas, categorizing them in the same “best friend” title, forcing that dynamic back into place even though, obviously, Will and Mike grew closer in s2, or at least their bond solidified, but Mike is just kind of pretending that didn’t happen? so s3 ends with will basically confirming that the party is still in tact and mike didn’t ruin it and will still wanted to be a part of it regardless of him moving, mike ruining it, him and Lucas being assholes, and mike being even a bigger asshole. but I think that the fight they had was more of a will/mike fight then it was actually about the party. it’s separate than the party dynamic and it’s more about their special bond which is why Mike runs up after him and Lucas stays in the basement, but it does result in Mike and Will having an entirely different fight of their own, which is both a stand alone fight because Mike says some fucked up shit, and Will insults his gf and says he is ruining the party. like Lucas isn’t even aware of all this!!!

(I ran out of text block). Lucas thinks that they were just a holes and they were but are apologizing for mocking him, so anyway, yeah: I just am getting at how this sort of refers again to the closer bond/additional dynamic that will and mike have which i’m not even fully convinced dustin and lucas are even aware exists? even though it so obviously does but a lot of mike and will’s most intimate moments, or moments that it’s clear they have a deeper connection, happen while they are alone. and I think Mike because he has this “you are all my best friend” mentality I think also feels guilty in s3 for having favored will or having a deeper bond with him than dustin or lucas. i think he is trying to balance it all and have it all and mike can only have one person outside of the party that he is especially close with at a time and he can barely keep that up but it’s why in s3 he feels so miserably because it’s the party, will, and el that he is trying to balance out. he therefore tries to just group will in with the party but their relationship/friendship has evolved past that so it sort of just collapses in on itself, and while the other party members are annoyed with Mike, it hits will even harder because yes, he loves him, but also because they did develop that strong bond that went deeper than the party, and now it just didn’t even exist

I think it’s safe to say that I’m totally just rambling at this point but I think it’s interesting to have s4 because it really does feel like in s3, they broke apart completely, and by the end of the season; Will was back in the party and that dynamic was healed but that wasn’t the only dynamic/bond they shared, and it really feels like in season 4, that bond is healed and restored, and mike admits to it, and WANTS it back, and admits to feeling like he lost will (due to worrying too much about el which honestly has so many meanings - worrying about her being happy, worrying about making her happy, worrying about being the perfect boyfriend so she doesn’t break up with him because he feels like he has has a mask on in the sense that he said one day she is just gonna realize he is a nerd like he has just been putting on this act and it’s so interesting and it’s so obvious too in all the season 3 scenes as well that he is just doing or saying whatever she wants to hear in so many of their scenes like that bike scene where they were just together and he is riding to the movie theater like she literally says ‘I wish you were still here right now’ and he says ‘yeah me too’ but he could have stayed like he is going to the movies and I know it’s just a small lie and like he would be a douche if he didn’t agree but it’s just such an interesting thing to include by the duffers because he isn’t going home, he could still be with her but he goes to his friends to see a movie. but I think it says a lot regarding the genuineness and sincerity of mikes words vs his actions like it is such a huge juxtaposition to create this scene idk).

anyways back to s4. s4 restores their special bond. mike is the most direct he has ever been regarding his closeness to will compared to the other members of the party. i think mike may have realized it when will left ? or at least realized he couldn’t shove will in with the rest of the party once he left, but i do feel like mike thinks he ruined it last summer with will because they barely make up as party best friends let alone best friend best friends outside of the group dynamic/bestie #1 so it sort of feels like mike just assumes he fucked that up, and he didn’t realize that Will would still want/wanted to be BEST friends with him until that roller rink scene (which is supposed to be what they are anyways because of what Mike told Dustin but I think it’s just another testament to the fact that Mike’s bond with Will is deeper and separate from the rest of the party.) I think especially too with Will not really speaking to him that whole day he didn’t really think that Will cared that much about their friendship (like to Mike, shouldn’t Will be happy that he is here? shouldn’t he be spending that time talking to him?) so I do think Mike is surprised when Will asks what about us because he didn’t realize this feeling was reciprocated because to him, really, in his little mike perspective, they had a huge fight where Will said he was ruining the party, and then when Mike tried to resolve things, Will didn’t seem interested in doing so… so (and I also think this is why Mike is so surprised that Will doesn’t plan to join another party but I do really think this was putting a bandaid on a very damaging rupture of their’s) and I think that is why he is also projecting in the sense that Mike knows that he is guilty of the rupture which caused them to drift to start with so him asking why he is always the bad guy is out of defense and guilt that this is how their friendship was now, but also a little bitterness as well because will wasn’t receptive to Mike trying to patch things up with him, and also the fact that Will was again blaming him for their friendship being the way it was when Will didn’t reach out either and how was Mike supposed to even know if Will wanted him to seeing as how things ended last summer? But also I think it’s clear that Mike tried calling more often than Will thought. Also - I think because Mike is into this idea of justice among the party and everyone being his bestie, and this is totally a hc, but he probably replicated Dustin and Lucas in regards to how often they reached out to Will and the means of how they did which wasn’t letters. Plus, Mike was pretty depressed so ! I’m sure it was hard to do anything.

All this to say, I think their friendship is lovely and beautiful and special, and while I do think that Mike has feelings for Will, I also hope (and have hope) for s5 that the st writers will honor their close bond and friendship because it is different and it is beautiful and I think that s4 really healed byler’s friendship 🙏like even when they are back with eleven, there is an obvious closeness between them that sort of proves that they are healed in that aspect which I just think is beautiful because I love their friendship so much and if the duffers aren’t going to give us Byler then I pray to god that they at least honor their beautiful and close friendship because god dammit it’s amazing. !!!!!

anyways, it is just fun to analyze their friendship because the ship is literally childhood friends to lovers which is my cup of tea, but I just feel like their friendship needs to be super strong in the 5th season and I feel at least very confident in that? which is good and nice. I will still be heart broken if byler doesn’t happen and i do have my doubts and i hope they do happen but if the duffers can at least honor their beautiful friendship then i think I’ll be okay in the end ??

but anyways. that’s some thoughts of mine

[alcalystrasz]

Here's the list of all my theories about Stranger Things 5 (not in order):

-Robin dies -> either to sacrifice herself (for Vickie or Steve) or she gets killed by Vecna.

-Max dies -> she doesn't wake up of her coma (episode 6 or 7, preferably after Robin's death).

=> After everyone starts to lose hope, they all get the courage to read her letters and they get determined to avenge her and the other deaths (even from previous seasons, such as Barbara for Nancy).

-Jonathan dies -> by saving Nancy or Will.

=> causes an emotional damage to Will, losing his big brother, the only one who knew about who he was.

-Mike and Eleven break up because Mike wants them to be just friends.

-Mike finally tells Will he's in love with him (episode 6 or 7, preferably after Max's death).

-Mike and Will go in the Upside Down (no reason in my mind right now, except it could be to find something).

=> They find Eddie alive (not dead because or the following reason: it's impossible to get killed in the Upside Down if you're not killed by Vecna himself -> Barb was killed by Vecna in the Upside Down since we see her in the pool she died, trapped like Chrissy, Vecna's mother etc. This could explain why Vecna didn't die when Nancy, Steve and Robin tried in S4). ((This theory is the least possible one in my mind, just so you know)) => he really dies though in the end.

Then, mostly everyone becomes a target of Vecna. Here's the list and the causes (why are they a target) and the characters that saves them (in order):

-Dustin is a target -> cause: Eddie's death, as he feels guilt for letting him go back in the Upside Down without him -> Steve or Lucas saves him because of their strong friendship.

-Lucas is a target -> cause: He feels guilt for not saving Max before Vecna takes her -> Max (if she doesn't die) or Erica saves him.

*Robin dies at this moment before the others gets targeted*

-Steve is a target -> cause: He feels guilt because he couldn't save Robin from the hands of Vecna -> Nancy saves him.

-Nancy is a target -> cause: She feels guilt because of Barbara and Steve being a target, but mostly of Barb -> Jonathan saves her by dying = she feels a second guilt and Steve feels guilt too.

*Jonathan dies at this moment*

-Will is a target -> cause: Vecna shows him his old memories (with his mom, Jonathan, Mike and the Party), but mostly bad memories to show him how his life is miserable. He asks Will to join him but refuses -> The music "Should I Stay or Should I Go" gets a door to open (just like Max when "Running up That Hill" started), and Mike's voice gets Will to escape Vecna's lair. He crushes his left eye before escaping (foreshadowing from Eddie during the DnD campaign in S4).

-Mike is a target (endgame, mostly end of episode 7 or beginning of episode 8) -> El saves him by fighting with Vecna but she still doesn't kill him. She gets hurt because he got stronger.

Now, the most crazy theory:

-Everyone finds a plan: Time travel.

=> They think, if the time in the Upside Down stopped the day Will got into the U.D, maybe he's the key of the U.D. Why? Maybe Vecna gave him this "power" because they're alike (sensitive, lonely, and good drawer). So they think if Will goes back inside, they can come back to the day he got kidnapped by Vecna and kill him when he was less strong.

And the Endgame theories (so episode 8 or end of episode 7):

-The Party finally gets back together and are going to be the leaders of the last episode.

-Eleven saves Hawkins by killing Vecna.

=> Parallel with the first season: Eleven gets Vecna on the wall, being ready to kill him but before that, she turns her head to Mike or the Party and says "Goodbye" one last time just like in the final of season 1. She then kills Vecna inside of the U.D creating a sort of supernova (because she erases him like the Demogorgon in s1, but since she did that outside of the U.D and she teleported them in it, and this time she's inside, this world can't support it and it makes a sort of supernova). This causes the U.D to get closed forever and Eleven dies, closing the possibility of interacting with the U.D from the real world.

That's it!! Tell me what you guys think about this, it's the main theories in big lines, some things a more precise obviously.